Upcoming Events
Jul
25
Thu
all-day Beezumph 28 2019 @ Cadwell Park Race Circuit
Beezumph 28 2019 @ Cadwell Park Race Circuit
Jul 25 – Jul 26 all-day
Beezumph 28 2019 @ Cadwell Park Race Circuit | Wales | United Kingdom
The TR3OC Committee would like to announce that this years BEEZUMPH RALLY will take place at Cadwell Park on the 25th and 26th of July. Hope to see you there.
Aug
3
Sat
all-day Llangollen International Motorcy... @ Royal International Pavilion
Llangollen International Motorcy... @ Royal International Pavilion
Aug 3 – Aug 4 all-day
Llangollen International Motorcycle Festival @ Royal International Pavilion | Llangollen | United Kingdom
LLANBIKEFEST 2019 – AUGUST 3 & 4 Royal International Pavilion, Abbey Road, Llangollen LL20 8SW   LlanBikeFest is run by a group of North Wales enthusiasts who are mad about bikes of all kinds – on road,[...]
Aug
16
Fri
all-day 10th Aussie Triples Rally
10th Aussie Triples Rally
Aug 16 – Aug 18 all-day
The 10th Aussie Triples Rally will be held at Evans Head, Northern NSW for three days from Friday 16th August 2018 to Sunday 18th August 2019.   
Facebook
"

Hurricane purchase

Home Forums TR3OC Members Forum Hurricane purchase

This topic contains 48 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by timothy rendall timothy rendall 6 days, 22 hours ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #8177

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    I have viewed a Hurricane and am interested in buying it.I have never bought a classic bike before and only owned Japanese Austrian Italian and German bikes.From what I can glean of the Hurricane’s history it was imported from the states in 2004 and kept in storage most of the time since.When it sold through Bonhams in 2015 they advised it would need re-commissioning before further use.The recorded mileage does not seem to have changed since then.The dealer is willing to start it up and ride it up the road.If it the engine sounds OK and I can agree a price,would I be wise to take it in a van to say P and M or 3D to have them look it over before riding it ?

    Thanks for your advice,

    Robert, new member.

     

     

     

  • #8178

    Martin Rawson
    Participant

    If you don’t know Triples then you should really take along someone who does before purchase and idaeally Hurricanes.

    Knowing the prices these machines fetch and how costly a triple engine is to repair it makes sense.It’s the least the dealer can do, is to get it running.I would want to know originality of components,has it been validated by club for example, engine oil pressure, compression, burning oil issues/ plug colour etc.

    P&M and Richard Darby at 3D are top people

  • #8179

    Peter Hughes
    Participant

    Corroborate Martin’s comments. Tridents will run at a dealer, sure, but to get them to run properly and reliably takes a lot of painstaking work at the get-go, especially if you don’t really know the bike’s history; they can be delicate. Add to Martin’s list: primary drive, gear selection, sorting out oil leaks, brakes, diverse electrical problems, carburetion; all can be suspect.

    Good idea to take someone along, so at least you know what you’re letting yourself in for (Bonham’s hint here: …need recommissioning before further use). On the positive side, most parts are still readily available and the end-result makes it all worthwhile.

  • #8180

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    Many thanks Martin and Peter.Is there anyone in the TR3OC who could appraise the bike for me ?It’s a few miles south of Crawley.

    • #8182

      Robert Moxom
      Participant

      Perusing the images on the Bonham’s entry,I noticed the labels on the top of the front forks reads 190cc oil volume whereas the owners’ handbook and other web images show 230cc.

      I did think the stanchion lengths on this bike appeared very slightly short in the pics.Does this suggest it’s fitted with A75 forks rather than Hurricane ?

      There are some images on Verralls website.What do the members with Hurricane knowledge think ?

  • #8190

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    Just read Craig Vetter’s description of the Hurricane fork length mystery following his visit to Beezumph in 2009.

    The mock up sent to Triumph had normal length Rocket III forks but an additional 1 1/2 inches were added in England.One could therefore argue that the Verrall’s bike is correct and the other 1100 or so Hurricanes are wrong !

     

  • #8191
    timothy rendall
    timothy rendall
    Participant

    I live south of Crawley and am the East Sussex rep for my troubles. I would say it’s a bit like looking at an Egg! it looks OK from the out sideband if you move it around there’s no nasty noises. But ( & there’s always a but) when you get it home and crack it open it’s rotten inside !

    So getting some one to look it over will just be that, a look over. I have done this sort of thing in the past and i don’t mind doing it again, I always say to the prospective buyer that i don’t have “X-RAY EYEs” I could tell you things like it has an oil leek or a worn chain or a noisy primary drive, but i couldn’t tell you what the big ends or the pistons are like.  As for the cycle parts they are very much a special thing to the X75 So you would really need some one who knows all about them to see if the cycle parts are genuine or are fake!

  • #8192

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    Dear Timothy,

    Very many thanks for the advice and your kind offer.I need to agree a price with the bike’s owner – it’s a commision sale – given that it doesn’t have Hurricane forks.

    If my offer is accepted then I would very much appreciate you being there to give it the once over.I’ll agree a price subject to a satisfactory look and listen.I appreciate the lack of x- ray eyes and won’t blame you if it turns out to be a problem beneath the surface.

    Kind regards

    Robert

  • #8193

    Graham Redrup
    Keymaster

    Hi Robert, have read through your posts on here and as a caution would like to make you aware that not all Triumph Hurricane machines are genuine, there are a number of BSA Rocket 3 machines that have been modified to appear to be a Hurricane. Could this be why the forks appear incorrect length on the one you are looking to purchase, be careful.

  • #8195
    timothy rendall
    timothy rendall
    Participant

    Is there a possibility you could post a photo of the bike so we could look at it ? As graham has said it could be a fake! In the 1980’s i new some one in the club who was actively making assorts of fakes, & very good ones at that too!

  • #8196
    timothy rendall
    timothy rendall
    Participant

    if it’s the one in verrells then i’ve had a look at the photos, ‘shiny’ 🙂

     

  • #8197

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    <p style=”text-align: left;”>Dear Graham and Tim,</p>
    The Verrall’s bike was sold at Bonham’s auction in April 2015.The pictures are on the internet if you search for Bonhams Triumph Hurricane.The reg no is FWW 961L, frame/engine number KH00212.

    It’s nothing like as shiny looking in the flesh.It has what I take to be a previously unrestored patina.The tank cover has spider web type cracks,pitted chrome,the odd fleck of rust.I think it’s genuine but with Rocket forks.I’m not sure what effect this has on the value.I tried phoning Richard Darby earlier for advice but haven’t been able to speak to him as yet.

    Are decent quality Hurricane stanchions  available ?

    Thanks again for your help.

  • #8262

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    Does anyone in TR3OC wish to sell their Hurricane ?I noticed in Triple Echo this week that Jeremy Weare has two.You can only ride one bike at a time,Jeremy !

  • #8277
    timothy rendall
    timothy rendall
    Participant

    have you given up on the other one ?

  • #8279

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    I haven’t given up on the Verrall’s bike but during my search I’ve heard about a possibility of a Hurricane for sale in Spain.I’m waiting to hear.Also keeping an eye  out at the Stafford Show.

    • #8288

      Alan Hesslewood
      Participant

      Hi Robert, Extreme caution is needed with bikes for sale overseas, you really need to see it in the “flesh” or have someone trusted to check for you. There was a Hurricane for sale on the Norton owners club website classifieds about 6 months ago in America at a very tempting price & they would arrange shipping too but it turned out to be a scam. A club member rang a garage near to the address were the bike was registered and luckily someone there knew the family well at that address, there was no bike there! The photos used for that advert recently appeared again for a bike for sale on Ebay. I reported the listing as fraudulent but saw it had 2 bids on it, I hope no one got shafted. I bought mine recently in the UK after looking out for one for a few years, a lot less hassle than buying from abroad so patience may be required.

      Best of luck, Al.

  • #8289

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    Thanks Al.The Spanish bike belongs to an English friend of a well regarded Trident expert in the UK so there’s no problem with fraud.

    With so few Hurricanes coming up for sale it’s difficult to judge what’s a good deal and what’s not.The only bike I’ve so far seen in the flesh is the Verralls bike which reassuringly is at a reputable dealership but appears to have A75 forks and no paperwork.The keys and paperwork were stolen from the Verrall’s owner’s car.

    I spotted an add in Old Bike Mart last week for an American Hurricane for $16,000.This to my mind had “too good to be true”written all over it.

    Valuing Hurricanes is hard.Last year they seemed to be fetching £20,000 or so,this year the asking prices are nearer £30,000.I haven’t spotted any at auction in order to get a better idea of the current values.

    I’ll try to be patient!

    • #8297

      Alan Hesslewood
      Participant

      Hi Robert, the Spanish bike sounds like a possibility then, the American one will be a scam. I wouldn’t be put off by the UK bike having standard length Rocket 3 fork stanchions as they are relatively easy to change and a Hurricane is only a Rocket 3 in a posh frock anyhows. In fact it may be a good thing unless you are quite tall as the 2 inch longer Hurricane stanchions make the bike quite lofty but they really should obtain replacement documents and keys before trying to sell the bike. As for prices, I paid £22k for mine recently,, it’s a user rather than a show bike and is slightly devalued by not having the original wheel rims but £25k is plenty for a good one, dealers will of course always want more and can ask what they like but probably won’t get it. It’s always worth asking around at shows rally’s and meets.

      Good luck, Al.

  • #8295
    timothy rendall
    timothy rendall
    Participant

    You could always give up on buying a Fake Triumph and buy a real Trident , A really late T150v, ha ha ha ha !

  • #8296

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    I did spend a long time yesterday looking at the T150V for sale at the Stafford Bonhams auction later this month.Quite tempting.

  • #8300
    timothy rendall
    timothy rendall
    Participant

    If it’s a very lat one it will have an frame / engine number of NK or PK I’d say the later the better. I did try and find it on the web but didn’t see it?

     

  • #8301

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    Timothy,

    The T150V is in the Bonham’s auction list but it’s nearer the end than the beginning.Go to the end and work back if you can.

    I’m a sucker for the chromed cases, hubs and chain guard.Not sure about chroming the carbs though ! I’d have to re-paint the tank and side panels as they don’t suit my taste either.High compression pistons also worry me.

    Probably easier to make an offer on that Hurricane.

    Alan, the owner of the Spanish bike doesn’t want to sell.The Verralls bike is not showroom condition despite how good it looks on the web.

    I am tall,6ft 3in , but the bike seemed roomy enough when I sat on it. I agree that £25,000 with keys and documents and subject to Timothy’s once over seems right.

    I’ll make that offer this afternoon and let you know how I get on.

  • #8302

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    Offer made.It’s getting exciting !I mentioned the forks.

    Verralls will speak to their Hurricane expert to see if any Hurricanes were suppled with Rocket 3 forks.

  • #8303

    Alan Hesslewood
    Participant

    I’m sure someone not as tall as you will have previously changed the stanchions to suit themselves.

    Good luck, Al.

  • #8305
    timothy rendall
    timothy rendall
    Participant

    Now i’ve seen the Trident i’d say ‘NO’ well not for what they want for it! But it looks like your going for the X75 now so let us now how it’s going 🙂

     

  • #8398

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    Hi Timothy,

    I’ve been offered the Verralls Hurricane at an acceptable price but need to agree with the dealer what we would need before going ahead.

    As I have mentioned above,the documents and keys were stolen from the dealer’s car so how do we obtain what the Americans call clear title ?I need proof that the owner does in fact own the bike and agrees to sell it to me through the dealer.I would think it’s possible to obtain a new owner’s document.

    For this price the dealer wishes to sell the bike “as is “.I will need to insist that a new ignition barrel is fitted If we need to start the engine to check that it actually runs or is it too risky to run the engine if it’s been laid up for a long while ?Remember when it was sold by Bonhams in 2015 they said it would need recommissioning before being put back on the road.

    I’m going to Stafford on Sunday.Hopefully I can speak to one or two of you for advice on how to proceed from here.

    Anyway,my first foray into classic bikes and Triumph/BSA triples is proving to be both exciting and worrying.

  • #8413
    timothy rendall
    timothy rendall
    Participant

    You can get a V5c from the DVLA i think the cost is £25 ?  The V5c isn’t proof of ownership it only tell DVLA who they can send fines too ! You would need to have a receipt from the owner and see some form of proof that he is the genuine owner.

    As for starting the bike up after a long time, yes you’d want to check that all is well  & maybe change the oils etc i’ve just started my bike up, the last owner had it on the road in 1992! and before that 1981! But i went all over it to make sure, things like brakes-forks- tyres etc etc were OK as for the engine i changed the oils filter & checked all the things i could with out an engine strip down!

    But as i’ve said before you never know what’s inside and how long it will; last even on a test run! Mine lasted a few miles before the electrical gremlins warmed up and started to play around ! Still at least it didn’t throw a rod !

    • #8414

      Alan Hesslewood
      Participant

      Hi Robert,

      If the dealer wants to sell the bike “as is” no key = non runner then it`s worth £5K less than if he gets it running for you. He should have sent for a new V5c as soon as the last one was stolen as this would have cancelled out the previous one, has he even bothered to notify DVLA? There seems to be a distinct lack of effort on the part of the vender to show you this bike is worthy of the sale price, I would suggest sub £20k is therefore plenty or he can go whistle dixie!

      Just my opinion, Al.

  • #8431

    Mark Hood
    Participant

    I am surprised people see a key as an issue!, just jump the battery – to any of the coil whites and you have a circuit.The ‘As is ‘ line coming from the dealer gets my attention, he could start it in a heart beat if he wanted.[it sounds like he doesn’t want to get involved in the sales veracity].

    But i would be very wary anything offered with  paperwork being said to be stolen and no attempt from the owner [who is in the best position to prove legality] to rectify his best chance of selling the bike.

  • #8443
    timothy rendall
    timothy rendall
    Participant

    I now see that there is 2 X75 for sale on Flee-Bag at the moment and both have a V5c so may be worth a look ?

     

  • #8459

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    I have received the necessary assurances from Verralls and have agreed to purchase the bike.

    There is now a V5C in the present owner’s name.I will receive an invoice stating it’s an original machine and that the last owner had good title to it.

    They will carry out all the major checks prior to sale including wheel alignment,chain tension,steering head/wheel bearings and brake check.The fuel tank and carbs will be checked.A solid state battery will be supplied and the electrical system checked.

    They have sourced a new pair of ignition keys and will run the bike up on the bench for me to witness.

    I’ll have the bike further sorted at P and M soon as possible.

    All in all I felt satisfied and preferred this dealer sale to the more risky though cheaper private sales currently on Ebay.

    Looking forward to becoming an proper member of TR3OC with an actual bike rather than a pretender!

  • #8460

    Alan Hesslewood
    Participant

    Good luck with the new bike Robert. I hope you can get it up to Beezumph in July so we can all get a look at it.

    Best wishes, Al.

  • #8461
    timothy rendall
    timothy rendall
    Participant

    I hope it all goes well for you P&M will do a good job i’ve used them in the past on my race bike. hope to see you at Beezumph or the East Sussex meet !

     

  • #8464

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    Thanks Al and Timothy.I’ll post back when I’m up and running.

  • #8469
    Paul Wilcocks
    Paul Wilcocks
    Participant

    Hope all goes well for you Robert

  • #8471

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    Thanks Paul,

    I’ll let everyone know how I get on.

  • #8747

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    I collected the Hurricane from Verralls this morning and had it taken by van to Peckett and McNab in Brentford.Ian Hatton at Verralls had cleaned the carbs and synced the throttle opening mechanism.It started easily from cold and sounded good to me.

    Richard Peckett and Dave Whitfield at P and M had a preliminary look over the bike.The forks are correct although the stanchions need re-chroming.The labels on the top of the forks saying 190cc instead of 230cc have simply been replaced.

    The brake and clutch levers are not original and I’ve ordered the correct parts from Triumph Spare’s Mark Francis.

    The engine has been apart as evidenced by the presence of Allen bolts rather than the original Phillips headed bolts unless somebody just wanted to switch them.

    If the clutch pull remains too heavy after the new levers are fitted,I’ll ask David to balance the clutch so that it moves squarely.A time consuming and therefore pricey job however.

    All in all it’s gone well so far.Looking forward to actually riding the thing.

  • #8750

    Angus McLeod
    Moderator

    Balancing the clutch wont make it any lighter to pull

  • #8754

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    It will allow it to operate properly in that the pull rod will need to move by the minimum amount to disengage the engine.Slip and drag should be prevented.

    The lever will need to move less to achieve this but I see your point in that the hand effort will be the same.

    I’m hoping the correct lever with shorter nipple to pivot distance will help with the clutch effort together with a smooth acting well routed cable.

    Are there any other factors which will help ?

  • #8755
    timothy rendall
    timothy rendall
    Participant

    i know this will not be to most peoples liking but i had a hydraulic clutch that i got from a chap in Holland and wow what a difference ! If you want the clutch to work well you will need to do quite a lot to it. you will need to do the paper test, and put it in a lathe and take measurements and then if you find it’s out then you will have to machine it etc. Also fitting the right type of pull rod and bearings will make a lot of difference too. My T150t clutch has a pull off on the bench of 0.038″ but the pull off measured from the end of the pull rod was only 0.032″. So you can see that there’s no way i’m going to get my clutch to pull off with out loading the bearings etc. I could go on but, i’d be typing all night. Having the clutch balanced will only make it run smoother eg: less vibrations.

  • #8756

    Peter Hughes
    Participant

    This from John at Triplesunlimited helped greatly on my T160: http://www.triplesunlimited.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=55

    I also fitted a new clutch lever with a 1 1/16″ pull,  see LPW https://www.triumph-spares.co.uk/t160-clutch-lever-assy-1-1-6th-pivot-centre

    …not sure if this lever fits with a Hurricane though.

     

  • #8760
    timothy rendall
    timothy rendall
    Participant

    There is a hole host of things you can do and have to do to get the clutch to work, it’s not like a multi plate one. They will work really well and very lightly but it takes time and a lot of patients & if you have access to a lathe then even better. If you come down to the East sussex meet next month we could have a coffee and a chat about all things Triple 🙂

  • #8761

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    Thanks Timothy.Unfortunately I’m on holiday in Cornwall at the time.

    I’ve watched the wonderful YouTube videos on the T160 clutch and primary drive set up by Triumph Enthusiast to gain some idea of what can be done.Dave Whitfield at P and M was talking about the method of seating the clutch in each position to gain the best action.I would think they could do some machining if necessary.

    I’ll see what difference the levers make initially and go further as required.

    All I’ve managed to do is start the bike and turn the throttle a few times at present.I thought that was an encouraging start.I don’t know if I dare ride it back to St Albans from Brentford when it’s ready.That clutch could be murder in London traffic on the North Circular.

  • #8772
    timothy rendall
    timothy rendall
    Participant

    If you get Dave to sort the clutch out as per that video and turn down the clutch where needed you should be fine in london traffic . but yes it will be a bit a of pain if not done. Dave is a really good toolmaker and he’s done some stuff for me in the distant past. In that video it doesn’t show you the turning down of the clutch basket fingers and pressure plate, these can all be out of true after all this time. if only a few thou. But , all these little thousand’s of an inch all add up ! There is a chap on the TR30c facebook site that had done all this to his bikes. He now has a clutch that works with only 2 fingers !  One thing i would say is don’t go for the stronger clutch spring !

  • #8773

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    Thanks Timothy,

    I will very likely go the whole hog with the clutch as I have a damaged tendon on my middle finger which makes my hand complain bitterly after a while operating a heavy clutch.I can only dream of it being light enough for two finger operation.

  • #8774
    timothy rendall
    timothy rendall
    Participant

    i know how you feel as i have arthritis in my left hand and i’m finding really hard to use the clutch, so i’m going to get a hydraulic , as they’re so light in there operation.

    But they’re not cheep! i paid £118 in 1997 but i think they are not in the region of £450 but for me they’re well worth the trouble & it is only a matter of time before i get one

     

  • #8775
    Kerrin Gautrey
    Kerrin Gautrey
    Participant

    Dave Whitfield built the engine in my bike, the clutch has got a sintered bronze plate & a heavy duty clutch spring. It really light in operation, literally two fingers to operate. He is definitely one of the good guys.

  • #8777

    Robert Moxom
    Participant

    Timothy and Kerrin,

    It’s reassuring to hear that Dave Whitfield has the knowledge and skills to achieve a sound result with the Hurricane clutch.Don’t know when he’ll have a chance to look at it,P and M seem to have plenty of work sorting out race bikes and helping customisers.This is why there’s no web-site or marketing of their operation.Demand outweighs supply.

  • #8782
    timothy rendall
    timothy rendall
    Participant

    Yes P&M is very much a case of take it to them and wait, but it’s worth the wait if you can. I try and do most of the work my self, A: to keep the cost down , B: because i can’t wait  🙂

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.