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Facebook and Forums

Home Forums TR3OC Members Forum Facebook and Forums

This topic contains 71 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by  peter nicholson 3 weeks, 6 days ago.

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  • #9532

    David Lord
    Participant

    In response to our new Chairman’s excellent article in TE243, here are some thoughts:

     

    Although there are 2,767 “members” of the Facebook group, this is an accumulated number, not a current number.  It wouldn’t surprise me if less than a quarter of that number still participate or look at the page.  There is always churn i.e. some leave and some join over any time period.  The thing with Facebook is that the people who have effectively left because they are no longer interested are still a part of the 2,767.  The TR3OC membership of 1158 is real and current; we know this because they have to pay, at least annually.  What we do not know is how many use the website forum?

     

    Facebook works so well because it is easy to use, especially “on the hoof” via a smartphone.  It is also highly interactive and has addictive features to keep you coming back.  Take the “like” button for example; it gives affirmation after posting something, makes you feel good that people acknowledge your wit, knowledge etc.  It alerts you when people have “liked” or posted a response so you keep dipping back in to see what’s happening (Fear of Missing Out).  The wobbly dots that appear when someone is typing a response keeps you hanging on longer to see what’s coming.  These are just a couple of examples, there is much more to their very clever design

    This is all possible of course with the mega£millions spent by FB on software development.

     

    The compelling nature of FB has also sucked in committee members, to the extent that most of the time, they will post on FB and not think to put the same material on the TR3OC site.  Some of this is chicken and egg; if the TR3OC site was more “FB-like”, they and the membership in general might be more inclined to use it.  Does the TR3OC FB group currently encourage people to join the TR3OC?  I can’t quantify that but I suspect not in any significant numbers as they get most of what they want from the FB group.  Club membership is fairly expensive, especially for overseas members, so why bother when they have FB?  That is a rhetorical question, but for many who don’t look beyond the FB page it is that simple.  By the way, has the club considered subsidising overseas membership rates, by equalising them with UK rates?  The £10k profit this year suggest this would be possible?

     

    I believe the TR3OC forum is extremely important for the club.  I have always thought that new members must be helped as much as possible.  Lots of people buy a triple for the first time and need help and information.  If they ask for information via the forum and wait days for a response it is a disaster for the club.  Unless they are fully supported they are likely to give up on the club and eventually give up on the bike.

     

    So I’d suggest that the website is re-developed to be fully smartphone friendly.  The forum needs to become more “FB-like” so it is easy to post words, pictures and video on the hoof, with interactive features e.g.“like” buttons.  Formal TR3OC news items and information should also be posted in the same way so that members can respond and be involved.

     

    But if the club did that, what about Facebook?  This might sound a bit radical but you could close it down as an open group and make it a medium for posting official club news and information only (Norton Owners Club does this).  Actually, if the club site was good enough then you really do not need FB at all! All those FB users who are club members will then be added to the TR3OC forum users, making a more active, thriving community on the club site.

     

    The big question is, can this be achieved within a budget the club can afford?  I do not know the answer, but fortunately the club has large cash reserves that could be spent on re-development to benefit current members and the long term future of the club?

  • #9535

    richard beard
    Participant

    Interesting topic.

    Let me declare where I am coming from.

    I live in US, have ten triples and am an old fashioned old bugger who doesn’t do Facebook.

    My daily sources of triple info are the TR3OC web site, TOL and the triples board on Britbike.

    I think an updated and reinvigorated TR3OC website would be a damn good idea. It would probably serve to concentrate all triples discussions/problems etc in one place and be livelier and more valuable as a result.

    Its future development would also be in the hands of the club rather than some faceless (sorry for the pun!) company over whom we have no control.

    In terms of overseas subscription rates– I have no particular problem with the current rates—IMHO it is worth it just for the magazine.

    Just my two cents worth of course.

     

  • #9537

    C. Edmondson
    Participant

    As a relatively new member I am very wary of telling anyone how to run their website. So here are a few observations and personal thoughts.

    I also don’t do Facebook as far as I’m concerned it’s only any good for gossip. As a means of imparting information it’s too disjointed. Having had a quick look at the clubs Facebook page last night it would seem to me to back my opinions up.

    I am an active member of two other forums one Land Rover and one Ferguson. Both are free to join and are very simple to use,  there is little or no bad feeling or negativity and as far as my memory goes no one has been banned or had any posts removed from either of them. Unlike a third forum which is linked to a vintage tractor club and is only open to the club members, who seemed to be constantly infighting.

    Not everyone has the need to be a member of a club, myself included. I joined to gain access to this forum and was disappointed when I discovered how little it is used, I should have done a bit more research. I regularly look on the TOL forum which has been very informative but it isn’t very user friendly. The other forums I use are run by individuals and have a donate button though I haven’t a clue how much they cost to run though one may be helped by advertising.

    • #9539

      peter nicholson
      Participant

      Richard

      Thanks for your response, would you give me some examples of things you would like to get from the website to help in my understanding of what needs to be done.

      Delighted that you like Triple Echo like you I think that the magazine alone is worth the membership fee.

      Look forward to hearing from you.

  • #9538

    peter nicholson
    Participant

    David

    Thanks for your response, the points you have made are pretty similar to my own, the problem with forums such as ours is as you point out that it isn’t Facebook.

    We are in a somewhat difficult position, do we invest a considerable amount of money in a new website and run the risk that it isn’t used?

    The purpose of my article was to gauge the membership’s wishes and from that make a considered decision, hence the request in the article that this forum be used to post comment in the hope that feedback on all aspects of our on line presence will be gathered in one place.

    • #9543

      David Lord
      Participant

      Peter, yes it can feel like a big responsibility spending the members’ money!  I think the interaction between committee and membership within this thread demonstrates the importance of the forum, so in my view it has to be worth investment.  You say “a new website” but it might not require that radical a change.  The plug-ins for this WordPress site are highly customisable and if you can find the right person or company, a development of the existing site should be possible.

  • #9540

    peter nicholson
    Participant

    C Edmondson

    Sorry I don’t know your first name.

    Please don’t be concerned about telling anyone how to run the website, that was one of the reasons for writing the article, any thoughts and ideas will be gratefully received.

    When you say in your post that you should have done more research do you mean with regard to joining the club?

    Can I ask have you looked at the technical section of the site? If so did you find it informative or easy to use?

    Peter

     

    • #9546

      C. Edmondson
      Participant

      Peter. My comment about having done a bit more research came over a bit negative. Yes I would still have joined the club but wouldn’t have got my hopes up regarding the forum. I’ve had a good look round the website and seen the technical archives. And yes it is easy to use, the only problem being that I use an iPad which constantly wants me to log in at every page I visit.

      To my mind a forum along the lines of the ‘simple machines template’ is the easiest to use.
      https://www.simplemachines.org
      It claims to be free but the cynic in me doubts that.

      I deliberately haven’t included my first name, not to be unfriendly, but in a desperate attempt at not giving too much personal information on the internet that is widely available to anyone who cares to look.

       

      • #9547

        peter nicholson
        Participant

        Hi C

        I take your point about ipads, it is an area that we will be looking at as we go forward.

        I’m glad that you chose to join the club and that you found your way round the website OK.

        Thanks for your input, please feel free to post any other thoughts that you may have.

        Hope to see you out and about maybe Beezumph or the lakes.

        Peter

      • #9549

        David Lord
        Participant

        I am also an occasional iPad user and don’t have any trouble with having to login for each page.  It works in the same way as any other device for me.  When you login do you check “Remember me”?

  • #9544

    Angus McLeod
    Moderator

    All very interesting. In fact David’s post has generated more responses in less than 24hrs than a lot of topics do in total.

    I absolutely refuse to look at Facebook in the belief that it is for children and sexual predators. I’m now too old for either of these. I have now come to the conclusion that the internet is the worst invention of the 20th century; but then I am a grumpy old sod.

    I look at ToL but never post anything and only read items where I believe the poster to be of reasonable intelligence, consequently I hardly ever read anything. It would be good if this forum was used more and I think the more it is used the more it will be used. Obviously I don’t know how user friendly it is compared to other sites but it is probably more user friendly than a misused Triple.

    • #9548

      peter nicholson
      Participant

      Hi Angus

      Hope you are keeping well, seems like a long time since I saw you, I’m getting good at being avoided.

      Seriously though in my Triple Echo piece I specifically asked for feedback via the forum in an attempt to get more people to use it, as well as making sure that I captured all of the feedback in one place.

      Peter

    • #9556

      Andy Salter
      Participant

      Angus,

      A good old sweaty sock approach.

      Why do you think this forum would attract any wiser posters?

      If I am correct, you have an in-depth knowledge of our triples, at what point would you get so bitter as not to spread your expertise to the newly owned? Yes I appreciate it won’t always get home.

      A second thought, I really get pissed with, we are the best, this is the always the way we have done it attitude, history tells me different!

      No disrespect intended, my Father was older than me, (not always true today!) I respected him without question, (luckily, he was a very good engineer and toolmaker, who then set up his production manufacturing business in 1974, still running today) his ability to find a solution to any mechanical problem never failed to amaze me, he was my DAD.

      My thoughts.

      Respects

      Andy.

      • #9563

        Angus McLeod
        Moderator

        Andy

        I don’t post on ToL because I think if members need to ask a technical question they should ask it here, if they are not , they should be.

        I read every post on this forum nearly everyday and try and answer questions if I know the answer. If I don’t know I don’t say anything. Unfortunately there is more I don’t know about triples than I do know.

        I don’t know if this forum does attract wiser posters but so far I’ve seen most posts to be of more relevant interest.

        Angus

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

        • #9564

          Andy Salter
          Participant

          Angus,

          I didn’t articulate very well in my last post to you.

           

          The point I had intended to make was:-

          Just because this is the owners club, is this is the best place to get the answers? And quite a few lessons can be learnt from far more skilled people.

           

          You seem to think so, no problems from me, as long as all the knowledge is available, and the site is usable, however we will still get those do not have a clue but will still post as fact.

           

          For me, a single place for the real triple users to come to makes obvious sense, and where better than its owners club website?

           

          However, what is more important, keeping our triples running and being used, or our own self importance to force all triple owners to sign up?

           

          It may well be that some very knowledgeable owners / users have no interest in being a club member for reasons of their own and so cannot offer advice.

           

          Do we then have a free forum? Best of both worlds? Sounds okay to me, but the fact that a financial cost will be incurred by the club will not sit well with some.

           

          But before any of this happens, our discussion page has to be at least as good and usable as the current options, TOL for me on my desk top is very usable, posts, time and dated, highlighted when read, break offs from the original post allowed with new titles (not very confusing)

           

          As always, just my thoughts.

           

          Cheers

          Andy.

  • #9550
    John Rimmer
    John Rimmer
    Participant

    David Lord makes some excellent observations. Perhaps it’s worth finding out the cost of improving the club website, and also checking if the existing site can be used as a starting point ?
    It must be preferable for tr3oc members and visitors to use the club website rather than Facebook ?

    I also use an iPad on this website and have no issues in navigating easily by just staying signed in.

    • #9558

      C. Edmondson
      Participant

      I also use an iPad on this website and have no issues in navigating easily by just staying signed in

      I don’t log in when I first visit the site, mainly because I don’t expect to find any new posts so what’s the point. Although since this morning my iPad has made a managerial decision to log me in automatically!

  • #9551

    John Young
    Participant

    To begin with, I’d like to endorse the opening comment made by Angus that it’s good to see the comments on here about Peters article in TE.

    At the moment, I am struggling with the “whole club thing”.  However, I’m reasonably sure that the clubs FB page has not been successful if it was intended to be of benefit to the club – although it’s certainly been of benefit to people who want access to free information.

    Perhaps rather than ask the question (if this indeed is the question that is ultimately being asked) “what do we do with the FB page ?”, probably a more fundamental question is what do members want from the TR3OC.

    Peter quotes 353 club members who are also TR3OC FB page members, but of course, with the FB page being open, you don’t even need to be a FB page member to view the content as I understand it.  That of course, provokes the question are there “real” TR3OC members who look at the FB page but are not TR3OC FB Page members ?  A question that cannot be answered of course but to base then a strategy for the FB page based on incomplete data is unlikely to provide the correct outcome.

    So maybe, the starting point to resolving the conundrum of the FB page is to go back one step further and ask people (members – and by that I mean “real, paid-up” members) what they want from the TR3OC.  Even that though has its issues.

    As I commented earlier “I’m struggling with the whole club thing” or more clearly, whilst I don’t actually know what I want from the TR3OC any longer, I am sure that what it is providing me at the moment is NOT what I want.  Any questionnaire therefore sent out would need to be very carefully put together if it is to produce any meaningful usefulness.

    Perhaps the “whole club thing” (and I’m not just talking about the TR3OC here) as we (the baby boomer generation) understand it, is dead in the water and internet and virtual clubs are the future …….. in which case the TR3OC FB page is a dismal sign of “things to come”

    Sorry I’ve slightly gone off the subject and in doing so probably widened the discussion …….

     

    • #9555

      Andy Salter
      Participant

      Hi John,

      I recall a TOL conversation we had many years ago, something along the lines of:- “what is the point of the TR3OC” you answered, I agreed and hopefully spread your thoughts.

      However, at the time the TR3OC website didn’t really host a discussion page and TOL was inhabited by many knowledgeable and often humorous posters.

      I always thought a sensible way forwards would have been for TOL to drive the website, just guessing there were underlying problems.

      Another issue, I do not know you that well, have only met you two or three times, but you do not come across as a person who can’t compose a readable post, the forum here is not easy reading.

      We have / had one or two posters on TOL that it would take a Bletchley park code breaker to crack, but I was always able to copy and paste to a different format into bigger text to help me read it, can’t do this here.

      FB holds absolutely no interest for me, that said, and I’m only guessing, I now meet more triple experts than I ever did, so I think people are looking at the bike and trying to find out what it is, FB?

      Cheers

      Andy.

      • #9559

        John Young
        Participant

        Andy – err, yes, you are quite correct.

         

        I was rather disappointed when I saw how my posting, initially correctly spaced out with clear paragraph breaks displayed on this forum

         

        It appears to get a “proper” clear paragraph line break, you need to “double space” with your initial draft (or certainly you do with my desktop)

  • #9557

    C. Edmondson
    Participant

    , the forum here is not easy reading.

    But neither is ToL or Facebook, because a poster can reply to posts within the page  you have to scroll through all the posts before you discover any new ones. ToL has a further disadvantage in that a thread title can be changed within the thread leaving the likes of me confused enough to give up.

  • #9560
    Don Gray
    Don Gray
    Participant

    Hi All.

    My twopenn’orth…… Facebook is successful (for my useage) because its easy to pop in & see whats been happening etc & see posts in one place from a number of groups I’m a member of, probably in a more lighthearted way. But, getting important, accurate technical info that you need to strip down & adjust your “wotsit” correctly could be dangerous unless you know the individual offering said advice was clued up…. a minefield for a newby Triple owner!

    We need to make the TR3OC  – & it’s website – the definitive, go – to place for the best triple advice, correct historical info & camaraderie / events.

    Take a look at the BSA OC website – as a chap at the AGM said….. I think it really works! It has different areas where you can post pics, ask questions & get answers, & have banter if you like. We could maybe have a similar thing but with restricted access to areas like files & archives etc for members only?

    • #9566

      Andy Salter
      Participant

      Don,

      Your post it at the very bottom of the page, I missed it, but this highlights the very point you are making.

       

      Please repost higher up, your point may get through, we need a better platform.

       

      Cheers

      Andy.

  • #9565

    richard beard
    Participant

    Peter,

    Here is a list of the contents of what I would consider to be an “ideal” site related to triples. It is of course a personal list and others would undoubtedly have different lists.

    a) Technical problems with solutions and/or workarounds.

    b) Rebuilds detailing sequences, problems encountered etc.

    c) Sources for hard to get parts.

    d) Sources for new products–for example Dave Madigan/Clive Blake in Triple Echo.

    e) Supplier news–going out of business–new sources etc.

    f) Club news.

    g) News from around the world. Currently good coverage for UK/Australia/NZ/Germany/France but nothing on US where I live. Now the US is huge and triple owners are normally far apart but there are shows such as the Triumph National Rally annually where triples gather –there are special classes for triples for example–but nothing is ever reported.

    It seems to me that of the “common” Brit bikes–in US at least—there are focused web sites for people with different Brit bikes. I have Triumph and BSA twins and singles as well as triples and the foci seem to be:

    a) BSA/Triumph singles    http://www.B50.org

    b) BSA twins   http://www.britbike.com

    c) Triumph twins   http://www.britbike.com

    d) Nortons  http://www.accessnorton.com

    e) Triples  –split between Britbike, TOL, TR3OC web site and (apparently) FB.

    Of these Britbike would I think be quite happy to concentrate on Triumph/BSA twins.

    TOL has recently had a significant outage. Kim who runs it has other priorities so while I think it is good it is also IMHO fragile.

    FB I will not use and from the responses to this thread it seems that I am not alone in this.

    I think that there is an opportunity to update and relaunch the TR3OC web site to become the focus for all things triple—the “go to” site for triples.

    All just my two cents worth of course.

  • #9568
    iain strong
    iain strong
    Moderator

    Pete. I think the forum look needs to be changed so it has different sections ie models . Technical and general banter. Etc .  I just find this layout not very user friendly as all posts are in one area  have a look at this forum . I think the format is far better

    https://www.thetriumphforum.com/forums/

  • #9570

    Angus McLeod
    Moderator

    All

    I have very little experience of forums, having only ever looked at this site and ToL.

    I’ve never really had an issue with this site until now. Usually most posts are relatively short and each post will follow on in chronological order. One has to just scroll down until reaching the last post read and then start reading again. I have just discovered it is possible to answer an individual posting with the answer appearing immediately after. Consequently one has to trawl through the whole thing to find anything new.

    Don’t ask me for the answer because I have no idea.

  • #9572

    paul wilcocks
    Participant

    Hi Peter and all members

    I also belong to a club in Australia called CCJMC. I am a scrutineer for this club and can sign Club permits for cheap registration. The club has a similar size to TR3OC with around 1,000 paid up members. There are 3 facebook web pages for this club,  Members only, Public and Buy/ Sell/ Swap.  Public and Buy/Sell have nearly 4,000 members.  It was deceided to put up a new web site, this cost around $80,000 AUD to date (around 37,000 pound) with ongoing costs to host needed. I dont think the site has turned out to be worth that kind of money. There is a tab on the site where you post your vehicles incl. pics and rego details etc. it does let people know when their club permits are due and informs of events but is little used other than that. Peter or Rich if you would like to check this site out let me know in southerncoordinator PM and i will forward you my access to this site. I am going to the Xmas break up for CCJMC today so I will ask more about the website. Cheers

    https://www.ccjmc.com.au/

  • #9573

    mark langan
    Participant

    Hi peter, I joined the Tr3Oc because of the Facebook page, very happy with my membership, worth it just for the triple echo!!!. As for Facebook it’s so easy to navigate and contribute, and when you’ve finished, one click (on my iPhone) and I can be on a totally different forum, or be chatting to friends etc etc,  I don’t see how this can be bettered without great expense to the Tr3Oc, I’m not sure it would be worth it. I think your in between a rock and a hard place, getting non members who frequent Facebook to become full members will always be tricky when much info is being given out on the Facebook forum for free. One possible suggestion would maybe to give the non members who are on Facebook 3 to 6 months free subscription to entice them in, once full members I think they would stick around, the subs are worth it for the triple echo alone I reckon. Anyway keep up the good work it can be a thankless task sometimes. Mark Langan. p.s. I left the Facebook page because my technical knowledge of triples is limited at the moment and I felt anything I posted on there would get little sympathy, and that’s putting it lightly, I can give as good as I get with the “banter” but felt I would be ejected very quickly if I did. I quickly realised if your not very knowledgeable it’s probably best not to post anything, maybe that’s one reason why non members don’t subscribe, that’s just my feeling, I could be wrong, thanks again.

  • #9574

    peter nicholson
    Participant

    All

    Thank you very much for your input so far, we will consider all of the points that have been put and try to work a solution.

     

    The views and ideas expressed here pretty much echo my own thoughts.

     

    Mark, you are the first and I suspect only person to have joined the club as a result of the Facebook page, the fact that you felt it necessary to leave the page because of your apparent lack of technical knowledge concerns me greatly.

     

    Please post any more ideas for improvement here, many of the things suggested can be implemented fairly easily, what we really need is feedback on any of the changes made, for example we changed the layout on the front page to try to make navigation easier, but nobody has said whether it is good bad or indifferent.

     

    Peter

    • #9575

      David Lord
      Participant

      The front page change I think is very positive.  It is interesting that some of the feedback above asks for features and/or content that already exists so maybe  it isn’t very easy to find things on the site?

  • #9576

    richard beard
    Participant

    David–if you are referring to my list of “ideal contents” then note that this list is essentially starting with a blank sheet of paper and trying to list all I think I would want.

    I fully accept that some of those items are already available.

    But don’t want to lose them in any revamp!

    If on the other hand you are referring to something diffetrent then please disregard this post!

    All in the interests of the continuing triple wail

  • #9577

    David Lord
    Participant

    Richard, thanks for the clarification.  My comment was influenced by your post but also by some of the others as well.

     

    I’d like to re-emphasise the point that this forum (and the website in general) is built upon a WordPress platform with a variety of plug-ins. The forum plug-in for example is highly customiseable and could probably be developed to achieve most of what people want.  I customised it to a small degree but really did not have the expertise to take it further.  All websites are “work in progress” and need to evolve and sadly this one hasn’t evolved much in the past two years or so.

  • #9581

    James Herbert
    Participant

    A huge amount of wasted repetitive silly questions would not be needed if stumped owners, who have too little mechanical experience, would read then apply ‘Tips for the Home Mechanic’ by Alan Golding in TE171.   They would also gain from what Pete Churchill and Phil Pick have written in numerous Triple Echos.

    Useful or historic info is usually too long for snippets on these forums (fora for the classicist?)   though Kilroy, of NZ on TOL presently provides a stream of good stuff.

    I believe Facebook to be moneymaking from the trivial, also a way of tinkering with elections.   If the Club could have had the content that TOL has often attracted then it’s website would not be so sparse.

    There is no substitute for experience, it is foolish to try a Trident if you have never struggled with a Tiger Cub or Villiers.   Pete Churchill gave us a good article on can timing but started with the proviso that those who failed to understand para 1 should pay someone else to do it.

    TE numbers below 100 were slim and neither glossy nor coloured but often contained hard won experience, by 200 there was faulty advice from lack of daily riding on fortnightly hot grease dipped chain, also arithmetic irrelevant to the task, but spending with alacrity to to gain but little.  The shortage of meaty articles stems from lack of riding.   Trailers to shows or Beezumph is not motorcycling.

    Motorcycling is being killed by Regulations, parental disdain and fear, but pizza delivery and moped enabled robbery is assumed to be motorcycling.   It is fun to go out and chatter to the blinkered in person, they might become less daft and there would be less time to waste on GIGO = garbage in and out of the internet.

  • #9582

    James Herbert
    Participant

    Like John Young I would be pleased if having spaced my paragraphs the daft device had kept my spacing.

  • #9584

    christopher hearle
    Participant

    Ive decided to write following this mornings reports on various FB pages regarding Col  Mc Andrews reported resignation.

    So Ive been a Tr3oc member on and off 20years plus, so obviously didnt join because of facebook. Forgive me for I am a little confused as to what the club intention is in having a FB page ?

    Ive never thought of it as a resource, or a free source of technical information. For me its away of keeping in touch with fellow members not just about Triples but on events going on in their world.

    FB is beter at this than the club site can ever be, this is because when Im catching up its not just the TR3oc im keeping up with its the rest of my family and friends old and new, I can do this on a phone, a pad or my desktop. I really dont think the club should be trying to do this.

    I also follow other FB pages, Trident Onwners, Rocket 3 Owners, British bike mechanics amongst others.

    So what should the club do, well I would stop worrying that people are getting free advice at the clubs expense. My advice is minimal but given freely to people who ask, they are people who I assume would help me and indeed do help me when I need it. Even if we wanted to stop it we cant.

    We could limit the website to members only but then remove the possibility of the website being a recruitment tool.

    However if we are going to use it as a recruitment tool then its needs more articles advertising what the club is doing for members. Marti  Rawsons using to point up  Classic bike show dates and organisers for instance. Also pointers to articles or information as to whats on the club Website available to members only.

    One suggestion find someone who doesnt use FB and get them to log on and search for info on Triples, it would be interesting to see what they can find.

    I intend to continue to use the Facebook page as it allows me to find out who are members of our page, this is useful if they have something to say or help to offer, I dont get that from the club web page ! Or do I ?

  • #9585
    jimmy mckenna
    jimmy mckenna
    Participant

    Angus look away now as I probably don’t meet your standard of ‘reasonable intelligence’

    I bought my first Triple after a 35yr wait and am totally delighted with it. I also signed up to tro3c, TOL and T160 Appreciation on FB. Using tr3oc on FB I was alerted to the website and immediately signed up.

    I don’t consider myself an expert at anything, but reasonably competent at most things, so when required to work on my previous bikes (Triumph Twins) I would use a mixture of You Tube, Workshop manual and model specific forums. Luckily I have not had to come out my generic comfort zone on my T160 but would have no hesitation to investigate all mediums open to me without dismissing any of them because they are not ‘the official owners club’. A common phrase in my work is single point of contact is the single point of failure

    I like tr3oc and will be renewing when due, but confess that I do use the FB site more than this one, but mainly due to ease of access

    I probably proved Angus’ point in the above ramble that I lack the reasonable intelligence to post regularly here 😉 😉

  • #9587

    Andy Salter
    Participant

    And then it all went silent, why won’t you  older / more experienced triple owners help the new owners?

    If anyone will be riding the bikes after we have gone, surely better that a slightly less informed individual rode it than “Stairwell Castors” well I’ve owned it since I was 3 , don’t know how it it works though, type.

     

  • #9589

    Angus McLeod
    Moderator

    Andy

    My contact details are in TE. If people ask me directly, as they did before the club had the FB page, I always try to help although I don’t profess to know everything; there are others who know a lot more than I.

    I don’t like answering among 20 different answers particularly when some are obviously wrong, the posters  have little experience, and are critical of others.

    Going to read ToL now.

    Angus

    • #9594

      Andy Salter
      Participant

      Angus,

      Apologies if I come across a little snarly, not my intention.

      It is, and I am certain most would agree, keeping these bikes on the road is far more important than talking about them.

       

      I take your point about some of the posts / posters but I think we have to be better than that and rise above it to help where we can.

      I recall back in the busier ToL days, incorrect postings would be corrected; I still do this where I feel the original poster is being misinformed.

       

      Perhaps starting a new post to correctly answer may be a solution, again I do take your point that a good answer can get lost in a long list.

      Regards

      Andy.

  • #9595

    peter nicholson
    Participant

    Just to try and steer this topic, thanks for all the comments.

    I am writing this post on my smartphone standing outside one of yorks finest using mobile data.

    Perhaps this site is easier to use than we all think.

    • #9598

      Andy Salter
      Participant

      Hi peter,

      Not certain that it shows it is easy to use, certainly not hard, but when we get discussions such as this, as Angus pointed out damn tricky to keep up.

       

      More or less have to scan every post to check the date and time, which works if you can remember the last time you looked.

      Not to mention the 5 mins it takes to scroll down to the bottom.

      A collapsable and highlighted forum would improve things, now where have I seen one of those?

      • #9599
        David Lord
        David Lord
        Keymaster

        You can tick the option to recieve an email alert when there is a new post to this thread.

        • #9601

          Andy Salter
          Participant

          For all posts or just the one you have replied to?

          Also, I tend to sit with my wife’s laptop of an evening, whilst she watches the crap on TV, so don’t pick up my emails until the morning.

  • #9596

    Angus McLeod
    Moderator

    Peter

    York’s finest what? Leaves all sorts to the imagination.

    This must be the longest topic on the forum, to the point that I’ve forgotten what it is.

    I think at times I might come across as a miserable grumpy old sod but that is only because I’m a grumpy miserable old sod.

    I now getting sucked in to talking drivel, maybe I should join facebook.

    I think this should have put Jimmy McK at ease as it has now become obvious that intelligence is not a prerequisite of using this site.

    Angus

  • #9597

    C. Edmondson
    Participant

    I am writing this post on my smartphone standing outside one of yorks finest using mobile data.

    And why would you be standing outside it, and not inside.

  • #9602

    peter nicholson
    Participant

    Just to test my resolve.

     

    I failed by the way.

  • #9608
    Don Gray
    Don Gray
    Participant

    Hi All.

    This MASSIVE thread demonstrates that we could do with a “click here to see last comment” button or something…??

  • #9610

    peter curran
    Participant

    for my tuppence worth , I think the Facebook page should be for members only .

    or members and invited guests  , until the club forum is improved to make it an easier place to be . And members should be encouraged to use it more and show support for the club by doing so.

    Pete

     

  • #9611

    mark langan
    Participant

    Peter Nicholson, just one thought, the Facebook page is public and anyone can find it and read what’s on it but can’t add any comments unless they are accepted into the group. Not sure if this has been suggested but I would only accept people if they are full members of the Tr3Oc, it will be frustrating if they can read stuff but not comment or ask technical questions etc. As for the people who are already on but not full members I would give them all say 1 months notice to become full members or their names will be removed, sounds a bit harsh but if explained properly that it’s in the best interest of the club I reckon most would understand, agree and become full members so they can carry on using the Facebook page. Good luck with it all anyway, Mark.

    • #9612

      David Lord
      Participant

      Peter, there was a project a couple of years or so ago to link the TR3OC membership database with Facebook logins but the developers couldn’t do it.  So whilst Peter and Mark’s suggestion makes sense, it would have to be administered entirely manually which is a big ball-ache. Apart from the initial purge being a big exercise,  you’d need to spot when a TR3OC member doesn’t renew and then manually remove them from FB.  A different developer might have fresh ideas on this but when the issues were explained to me it looked impossible to automate.

      • #9613

        Andy Salter
        Participant

        Peter, Mark,

        We do not live in a world where forcing people to join clubs is acceptable.

         

        Not only that, if the wise people who really know decided that approach did not represent them and decided not to join, where would that leave the rest of us, remember these people do not need our help, we need theirs.

         

        Also remember when the clubs website was pants with its forum and before FB, where did the majority get help? ToL if I recall, is it fair now that we go thanks Kim for your site, but were off now?

         

        I appreciate your thoughts of increasing the clubs membership, I suggest the best way is to have more of our triples seen out on the road.

         

        For this to happen they will need mending occasionally, so any unfettered access to information is the way forwards in my opinion.

         

        I don’t know if it possible or desirable for both parties, but when someone post here it also appears on ToL and vice versa, leaving users to choose where to post and read, this would increase traffic for both sites, possibly increasing advertising revenue and capturing a bigger audience.

         

        Cheers

        Andy.

    • #9614

      mark langan
      Participant

      Yes David it would be a bit of a nightmare, pretty much a full time job to keep up with, not really viable, I certainly wouldn’t want the job!!!!. Andy I agree with most that you said, but they wouldn’t be forced to join in my opinion it would be a choice, and if they can’t afford £30 subs with lots on offer from the club I think they will struggle keeping their bike on the road if they are lucky enough to own one, nothing free in this world in my opinion. Cheers, Mark.

      • #9635

        Andy Salter
        Participant

        Mark,

         

        I missed this one in all the excitement, for me it’s not the money, that said  would you pay £5 a go for a relatively small club book, six times a year if that is all it gave you?

         

        Club membership has, at least for me, to have the feeling of inclusion, a place to go when you need help, a run out, or whatever.

         

        So it probably won’t come down to money as to whether the more knowledgeable people would join, but forcing them onto FB as the main way to communicate may be a little short sighted.

         

        Cheers

        Andy.

  • #9615

    John Young
    Participant

    Andy S.

     

    In the beginning (and that’s where the religious references end) there was the TR3OC.  For years, the club prospered.

     

    Then the “internet” arrived and Kim Rowden who was then still heavily involved in the club, effectively offered the concept of TOL to the TR3OC.  It was declined (I’m not privy to the entire details) and the club opted to remain a “magazine based” club.

     

    Thereafter TOL prospered, whilst the TR3OC effectively went into stagnation and technology advanced.  The only thing that club offered that still gave it a “USP” were “real life” events, most notably Beezumph.

     

    In the meantime, along came FB.  It didn’t need to attack directly the TR3OC as it was doing a fine job of “self-strangulation”, but it had TOL firmly in its sights due to some of the convoluted posting requirements (pictures etc) that TOL required.

     

    It’s not hard to see that the use of TOL has diminished almost directly in proportion to the increase in use of the various FB pages.

     

    Meanwhile, the TR3OC has bumbled along, the average age of the membership with each passing year, increasing by one year

     

    There’s a saying that I’m quite fond of – “if you always do what you’ve always done, you always get what you’ve always got”.  Both the TR3OC and TOL have found/are finding that it’s very true.

     

    Peter Nic needs all of the support that he can get because, if the club is to succeed in even the medium term, then it needs to start doing something very different to what it has done over the last few years.  Discussions like this hopefully will help find a new “USP” for the club.  One thing it isn’t, is Beezumph – or at least Beezumph in its current “neutered” format.  Maybe “linking” the FB page to the membership is a start despite the negativity around that idea.  Nothing is hard work, if people just have a little passion about what they are trying to achieve.

    • #9616

      Andy Salter
      Participant

      John,

      Thanks for the information, Good to see the “this is the way we have always done it attitude” was alive and well with the club.

       

      I take your point about FB, but in a Monty Python style reply ”but I don’t like spam” have had the odd peep at it but just don’t like it, it seems as if I am not alone.

       

      Kim has made some major leaps regarding posting images and videos, and now shows which posts carry them, it will interesting to see if the traffic increases, as you say it is down to a trickle nowadays, several reasons probably, but not helped by their being 3 main areas for us to post, not forgetting the videos on Youtube.

       

      If we are at all a cross section of the common poster, Angus will only use here, for me here and ToL, you all three.

       

      I liked Richards post on the 13th about the ideal site but do we leave this info just for the members?

       

      I think the club must decide and prioritise what it stands for in 2020 and going forwards or it could disappear up its own orifice.

       

      Cheers

      Andy

      • #9617

        John Young
        Participant

        Andy – you might “not be alone” regarding FB, but you are certainly in the minority

         

        I have posted on TOL, maybe half a dozen times in the past 3 years.  I don’t like the site, I don’t like what it set out to achieve and I don’t like many of the few remaining regular contributors on there.  From what I understand most of the people whose opinion were worth listening to that no longer contribute to TOL, more or less share the same views and certainly the last one.

         

        Having said that, I don’t contribute that much to the TR3OC FB page either these days and haven’t done so since the initiative of 50-50 Challenge.  On the odd occasion that I do post on the TR3OC FB page, I remove the posting after about 12 hours or so and I firmly believe that the clubs FB page should not carry “long term information”

         

        However, the future of TOL and indeed the direction that the club is to take are neither my responsibility, nor indeed my concern.  I am simply an “interested” onlooker these days, offering the odd comment but, and in the main, ploughing my own furrow.  If I’m asked to help, then I do so if possible but I have to be asked and no longer freely volunteer.

    • #9620

      John Young
      Participant

      Andy S – I do not necessarily share your view that we (and by that I assume you mean people who own and ride “proper” triples) are a doomed species.

       

      I do think though that “doing what you’ve always done” etc is not the way forward.

      • #9623

        Andy Salter
        Participant

        John,

        You may still be in touch with many triple owners, your interest, mileage, club history and ownership may well be hiding from you the big reduction in the numbers of triples I see out on the roads compared with just a few short years ago, and not just triples, I barely see any older bikes, with the exception of when a local classic show is on.

         

        I do not do the miles that you do in far and distant lands, but I am out at least once a week (all year round), weather dependant and usually fit in 50 – 70 miles each run.

         

        That may be an age thing, value of our bikes or it is just easier to wheel out the newbie in the shed.

         

        Add to that the reluctance of good people to step forwards to help, this was a nightmare at the athletics club, a web forum that doesn’t really work and no clear consensus on the way forwards other than FB, which is split, I would still argue more people don’t use it than do, but then I don’t visit.

         

        I am not a negative person by any means, but I am not blind to the future, time will tell!

         

        I was joking about treading the same path, but it’s such a British thing, as I have said many times in the past, it drives me mad.

         

        Cheers

        Andy

        • #9624

          John Young
          Participant

          I don’t disagree with your first comment – in fact, you are entirely correct in your statement.

           

          However just because we are at the bottom of the trough in terms of “triple useage and/or triple appreciation” doesn’t mean there’s no way back – it simply means a different approach and attitude is needed to what has happened in the past.

           

          • #9625

            Andy Salter
            Participant

            I hope you are correct.

  • #9618

    Andy Salter
    Participant

    Ah but I am English and have never enjoyed change!

     

    It looks like we a doomed species, as never the triple will meet, near enough!

     

    I, as will you no doubt continue riding our  triples.

     

    I suspect you may well be correct regarding the aging population of our club and its inevitable conclusion.

     

    So FB will be the eventual winner, as long as it serves to provide for the needs of those who still ride them, I will live with it, but not support it.

    • #9626

      John Young
      Participant

      Andy

       

      I suspect that if you seek to “support the needs of those who still ride them”, you first need to accept the fact that “those who still ride them” will become (and maybe already are) merely a “sub-group” of the triple community and therefore should no longer command the main attention of either the TR3OC, nor TOL, nor FB.  Except, in the main, those three entities still do try to fulfil that function.

       

      The first line of the TR3OC club constitution – it’s may be the second one actually, but it is THE primary “raison-d’etre” of the club – says something along the lines of “to promote the continued use of the BSA/Triumph triples”.  That was all fine and dandy, when people actually used them.  As you point out, that “use” is now a pale shadow of what it once was and so building a club, or forum, or FB page with that “purpose” still in mind, is clearly going to miss the target.

       

      Many years ago, I stood up at a TR3OC AGM and suggested that the clubs focus should change to being to “promote the continued appreciation of the BSA/Triumph triples”.  It is a subtle, yet definitive difference to what the initial aims of the club were (and to some extent still are) and could have driven the club in a different direction.  I was effectively shouted down – everyone else knew best.

       

      Well 10 or 12 years on, triple “useage” seems to have fallen and coupled with that, so has the “appreciation” of the triples – because “appreciation” has never been targeted, only useage.  You can see that in how few mainstream classic bike magazine articles there are on the triples these days compared to even a few years ago.  This year (2019) were it not have been for the sad deaths of Gene Romero, Les Williams, Harry Woolridge and Percy Tait and their obituaries, there would have been scarcely any media coverage.  Beezumph for example barely gets a mention these days – it’s importance being limited to its attendees and the boundaries of whichever race track it’s held at that year.

       

      So, increase awareness of the triples and in doing so, as the awareness grows, it will more easily allow this “sub-group” of users to be served.

       

      How to do it ?  Again, relatively simple as there are far and away more people that have HAD triples than still have them and there’s your initial target audience – but only your INITIAL target audience.  There are all other groups out there – one, that I know has been highlighted already by Peter Nicholson is the TOMCC.

       

      However, maybe none of the above is relevant as a little bit of passion will be needed to achieve it all.  If that isn’t there, maybe (1) the TR3OC does just sit back and slowly uses the £100k or so that it has in the bank to support the ever increasing in age and ever decreasing in numbers people who use/ride there bikes until the moneys gone (2) TOL accepts the ever decreasing  number of postings it gets and (3) we see more and more pictures of Vesta instant curry meals on the TR3OC FB page.

       

       

      • #9627

        Andy Salter
        Participant

        John,

        I think we can finally agree, you make absolute sense in this post with a view to the possible outcomes of the triple users, appreciation societies and various clubs / interested sites.

         

        At the centre of all this is deciding what the club stands for, as you point out this is a shifting sands situation, what was good 10 years ago will almost certainly not be what is required now or in 10 years, the key to this is staying ahead with a little vision, though easier said than done, it would appear as if you did have that vision.

         

        What was that bit about being british and just repeating what we have always done?

         

        If you don’t know where you are heading, how can you steer a course?

         

        Exactly the same issues we had with athletic club, I constantly asked what was the main purpose of it, competition, athlete development, youth club, keep fit? etc. I never got an answer, which I believe went a very long way into our failure to resolve the fore mentioned coach / club clash.

        • #9628

          John Young
          Participant

          Of course, some will simply regard my comments as “divisive” ….. Lol !!!

  • #9619

    James Herbert
    Participant

    The sins of fathers are visited on sons unto the seventh generation.

     

    Clubs are formed by people who have real enthusiasm for something but are usually taken over by clerks of preening.

     

    The Motorcycling Club started in 1901, it still provides competitions of endurance on long overnight routes but many only ride that, being delivered and fetched by van.   Contrast flying where DH Moths gather for events, they cruise 80 and 90 year old engines at 85% of take off revs.   None arrives on lorry or inside a C130.

     

    European rich men raced for days at their expense, in USA races were on horse ovals and citizens paid to watch.    Showbiz.   Then quarter mile drags, lasting seconds, chromium plate, flames, smoke.   Not like Milan to Taranto on bikes.

     

    It is the content of magazine or forum memo which attracts or not.    People who take polished plating to shows have little to write that can be found useful.   Tim Smithells was right: no trailers.

     

    I took my bike home on one when I was 22 and two plinths for valvegear had torn off the cylinder head.   I also carried a Rudge 300 miles on a sidecar chassis  when I was 19, quite a test of both my £7.5 bike and my stamina.

    • #9629

      dave williamson
      Participant

      I had not intended to add anything to this discussion, following Peters request about facebook, as there had already been sufficient replies and he is  aware of my views however the discussion seems to have taken a different turn, so I feel compelled to comment –

       

      I like owning and riding my old motorcycle.

      I like riding it with others who like owning and riding their old motorcycles.

      I particularly like riding to and from social events regarding old motorcycles, most of which have either been organized by, or exist only because of, the clubs ability to unify the desire to ride old motorcycles and socialize with others who want the same.

      Thats it.

      If this is insufficient and you require something else from a motorcycle club, then please state exactly what that ‘something’ is and don’t just say ‘it lacks direction’ or ‘it needs to be up to date’ without specifying exactly what that means and how this affects doing what you ‘like’.

      This discussion reminds me of the climate change debate; there seems to be a lot of passionate and vocal people who say ‘something needs to be done’ but never say what that something is, in any practical way.

      It is true that the membership is getting older. A consequence of that is that some, in order to attend social events and include their motorcycles, require assistance in the form of a trailer. They should not be condemed for this. Just be thankful that you are not at that stage yet.

      Younger people cannot be easily attracted to our peculiar interest easily as there are far more other things that will be attractive to them before an old motorcycle, so if the existance of our club has a finite life due to age and expiration of the membership, then so be it.

      I suggest in the mean time we all have a bloody good time and make the most of the time we have and stop whinging.

       

      Going back to climate change, our clubs demise has probabaly already been decided by the lobbyists who will have everyone in electric cars by 2030, so ours bikes will be extinct anyway.

       

      I don’t give a stuff, either way, about Facebook by the way:)

      • #9630

        Andy Salter
        Participant

        Dave,

        I believe the starting point was the website and FB, what is the point of having a forum that is never visited, because it really isn’t as good as some other options?

         

        You take a simplistic view to the purpose of the club, nothing wrong with that, but if that’s all you want, do you need a club? Spent many a happy times riding out with others without feeling the need to join one.

         

        However, this is quite a specific club, i.e. not a general BSA, Triumph owners club etc..

        These because of the numbers will remain relevant and spares available.

         

        If however you want to be able to ride your triple in the future, it will require maintenance and spares, if they stop getting used by the many and new members not drawn in, then the availability of parts dries up for economic reasons, where will we find what we need?

         

        I believe we do need a good strong owners club, but what does that mean? Probably one that reflects the current usage of our bikes and members, an easy source of information and hopefully a little humour, but as John was pointing out we need to target other areas to increase awareness if we are to stay afloat.

         

        It is not that often that a youth even looks at my 160, but will understandably stare doughy eyed at the latest plastic rocket ship, but every now and again it happens, hopefully sometime in the future they may just want to buy one and keep it alive, they will need help as did we all at some point.

         

        Do you need a hand pulling that ladder up?

         

        Climate change, that was a good leap ever thought of athletics?

         

        What will they do when they find out it was all the emissions from coal fires, smoky old engines etc that was partially blocking the suns power and keeping us cool?

         

        Having taken years to build this up, they are removing it at an ever increasing rate, oddly enough the planet is heating up now quicker than ever if Australia’s current problems are anything to go by, another good reason to keep riding.

         

        Oh and just to have these sort of discussions when we can’t meet up.

         

        We won’t always agree with each other thank goodness, but have always enjoyed a robust debate, I agree, easy to waffle and make no point, but I don’t think that was happening.

         

        Cheers

        Andy.

  • #9631

    James Herbert
    Participant

    I have several points but as I have to use one finger on a phone which freezes before I finish I shall send separate posts.

     

    Old age: my 90 year old friend still rides the bike he bought 68 years ago, but only in warm daylight nowadays.    Detractors call him an overgrown ‘Ton-up kid’.   He never paid anyone for maintenance or repairs, but when he accompanied a much younger bike and rider to Spain, go to France, turn right, the young one, ‘Serviced by marque specialist’ failed – mended in lorry shed by my friend who noted CB points grossly Ill set.

     

    A late friend died at 97, for his 90th he asked to fly over the Jungfrau in a microlight.   The Swiss do not allow that so he had to use a spam can.   This man became decrepit, so I used to describe my engineering outings, in return he gave lovely rare interesting books.    He emphasised that in 1939 he was a civilian, who was mobilised in the RAFVR and immensely lucky to have survived 1940.   He would not have been interested in accounts of trips to shows, pubs etc.

     

    My grandfather died at 83, riding only ten days before.

  • #9632

    James Herbert
    Participant

    Appreciation implies real understanding, resulting from incisive thought, weighing compromises, considering the experience of differing users in varied places and circumstances.   Belief is simple:.  This is Technical Excellence, that is a tractor.   In USA there were gatherings of HD people who drank and destroyed ‘Jap Crap’.

     

    Air displays had a surge of popularity, most spectators look blank if asked about differential ailerons.   My 8 & 11 year old relatives described a publicity stunt involving a girl, whose father lived vicariously, as “amazing, fantastic…” etc.   I try to make them think and consider facts.

     

    Probably a newsman who opined that nobody lost money underestimating the taste of the public.   Motor journalists have almost never had a clue about anything deeper than shine, possibly exhaust note.   There is hardly a book displaying anything but regurgitated drivel about motorbikes and few about cars or aircraft either.

  • #9633

    James Herbert
    Participant

    About 1970 the chief of test pilots school swapped rides in HM aeroplanes for a go in a private Spitfire.   He was prepared to be disappointed after his usual trips in Hunter or Lightning but it was all true, a wonderful machine.   As it sat clicking, cooling it’s owner said “That is the longest it has been held at +25 for half its life”.   Poor officer hoped he hadn’t worn it out too much.   If it had been brought on a Queen Mary, 28hp Bedford, he wouldn’t have flown it let alone been impressed.

     

    I put my nephew in my car, too old, told him to hold 3rd from 4,000 to 6,500, he became nervous as it raced past 6.   If it had been the Trident the result would have been similar – giggling and off to internet to see if he could insure it.   But he was so lacking imagination that in 2007, centenary TT week, I invited him to free flat I had on the IoM and he refused.   Later he watched television or similar and told me it was an incredible place…

     

    Appreciation has to be got by ramming their noses into the glory of it all.

  • #9634

    Andy Salter
    Participant

    James,

     

    I have no idea what you are on about, though I appreciate that you may!

  • #9638

    peter nicholson
    Participant

    Wow

    Now I really do have a lot to think about. I’m glad I asked a simple question.

    Seriously though, I have read all of the comments, some of the technical website stuff I’m sure can be quickly and easily fixed, the other points raised may take a bit of time, but unless we try we will never do anything.

     

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